Final Fantasy XIII/-2 Character inclusion timeline

[Kuri, Queen of Feels]

I'm not quite sure if people wanted me to post this or not, but I'm serious about getting these characters going on the site, and you guys need help!
Feel free to comment by the way
also SSPPOOIILLEERRRSSS if you do not want to be spoiled for whatever reason, don't read this, its all based on the end.

How to make XIII/-2 Characters RPable <3

First of all, we need to look at the current Canon 13 list.

Lightning: Crystallized on Etro’s throne in Valhalla
Serah: Dead, her soul however is in Valhalla.
Snow: No One really knows. He fades away in the middle of the game.
Hope: Still alive
Sazh: Still alive
Vanille: Crystal, but “safe”
Fang: “ “ “
(13-2)
Noel: Still Alive
Caius: Dead, Spirit most likely in Valhalla
Yuel: Dead, as usual, Spirit in Valhalla

The way I see the 13 characters plot working is that everything revolves around the end of the game.
--- I know that the Staff was talking about making Cocoon fall and have it set in the beginning of 13-2, that will not work. Just period. There are far to many open ended things, paradoxes and time travel for that to work if you want things to be easy.----

My idea revolves around the end of 13-2 because the time travel problem is already resolved for us. After Caius dies, the timeline is restored, and all the gates start to disappear. As Noel phrases it: "Once the gates disappear, everyone stays where they are." 13-2s time travel revolves strictly around the gates unless you are Lightning, Caius, or Yuel. You need to find both an artifact ( something out of place in the timeline) and a gate to match the artifact in order to time travel. ( Even then, gates are picky and only let certain people through)
So by the end of 13-2, time travel is impossible.

The end of 13-2 is also a great idea for our character plots to start, considering that everything is already getting eaten up by darkness in the first place. Gran Pulse and Bhunivelze are basically screwed as far as we can tell. I would assume heartless would almost swarm to it with all its dark energy about.

Now, The way to revive all 13/-2 characters revolves around Etro. In the Fabula Nova Crystallis Series, Etro is the Goddess of all humans, because she created them; As her wiki page puts it: “Despite her relatively short and never spoken appearances, Etro does display through her actions a kind and compassionate personality that is protective of humans and l'Cie overall…. While she apparently has good intentions, many of her actions have unforeseen harmful consequences.”

What if Etro, in a last attempt to save her beloved Humans revives (and makes Human) all of the ones that she had a direct hand in making suffer?
Lightning would no longer be crystal, and would be allowed to return home.
Serah would no longer be dead, or a seeres
Vanille and Fang would no longer be Crystal
Cauis would return to life, however no longer be immortal, or the god of Chaos.
Yuel would return to life but no longer be a seeress, so no more visions and constant dieing. (in turn make Caius not want to screw the timeline up anymore)

This makes virtually any character desired in 13 playable, as long as they didn’t die in 13 ( like Bartandelous, although I don’t know why someone would want him…)

All characters could start out in Traverse Town, or where ever really in the KH universe.
----
previously mentioned questions/ concerns
1. Time travel at all.
Time travel is an important part of even 13. Lightning gets taken away by Etro maybe 2 minutes after 13 ends, cause that's where 13-2 starts, Lightning is missing. There is almost no way to just write out time travel without just saying there is no 13-2 accepted on the site, period. As I mentioned before however, there will no longer be time travel available to RPers, it would just be in their histories. ( I also feel as the hopeful Serah RPer, I'd have some control over this, considering if Serah can't time travel, no one else should be able too.

2. I've heard is a few times: "What does this have to do with KH, or I feel like we are bending KH to ff13-2"
*sigh* this question frustrates me. It wouldn't seem like that if I didn't have to explain the game. As all of Squares games are, ff13-2 is complicated beyond reason. All I am doing is explaining how these characters could canonly end up in the KH universe. And no offense, but I actually know what I'm talking about when it comes to 13-2.


Anyways, as I’ve mentioned to a few people I would be more the willing to be the watch over any hopeful (haha, hope jokes) 13 RPers and make sure they actually understand things before letting them lose on the universe.

Feel free to leave any questions or complaints and I shall try and explain things better. I'm bad at this whole give your idea out and try to prove its good without opposition thing.

[behry]

I think it sounds feasible ive seen more complicated ideas implemented before.

[Charme]

Then there will be no development. With the FFXIII story officially completed, it leaves no conflict for the characters to follow. In every other FF inclusion, they follow a storyline in-game. There is like one instance where this doesn't apply.

Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Yuffie, and Cid belong in RG. Specifically, their homes were destroyed and they seek to rebuild it. Meanwhile Cloud fights with his inner demons as his other half plays with him as a puppet. Leon is focused on how he was too weak to protect RG from it destruction.

Yuna, Rikku, and Paine are treasure-hunters and spend their days working for whatever side pays the best to find treasure. In this aspect their storyline is contorted to a point where it is unrecognizable when compared to the original. Still, they are treasure hunters. That's something.

But if all the characters from FFXIII were brought back and put on Traverse Town, what purpose would they serve? All of their dynamics have already been fulfilled, their adventures finished. Notice that in all other instances the characters have not yet completed any major feats. Not to mention their worlds were never mentioned. An easier way to put this would be you simply cannot bring them from the FFXIII universe. In the event that these characters would be applicable they couldn't hold the history of either game, not 1 or 2. They would only be allowed a conversion of their original histories.

EG the l'Cie wouldn't exist, and sure as hell wouldn't be the followers of demigods as they are in the game. There has not been one FF character brought from outside KH in the series- they all originate in the universe that is already set. Whether it be from RG, Twilight Town, etc. they exist solely within the KH universe, not the FF universe. <--THIS is because in the event that they actually came from Pulse/Cocoon, they would be pointlessly included in this universe. Literally, they would have no reason whatsoever to exist because they cannot fulfill their fate as l'Cie. Therefore, to make a legitimate storyline for them through RP, they would have to be tailored to fit Kingdom Hearts.

Also, why would we start at XIII-2? That hasn't been done in any other instance. Not to mention it doesn't make sense chronologically in the KH universe. The best course of action would be to have them start in the XIII storyline, perhaps in Radiant Garden or Traverse Town, and have them marked as whateveryouwannanameit because it simply will not be the same as a l'Cie. Perhaps their significance is to destroy Heartless. Or something. Hell, they could originate from Radiant Garden, their purpose being to destroy the Organization or something. That really comes down to the RPer.

These are just a few ideas/responses to the thread above. They are directly focused at ways to compromise in the event a mod were to look at it, and are meant to make the storyline more feasible. For all I know, the mods'll be like... Nope, wrong. But hey, I tried.

[Kuri, Queen of Feels]

Where to start where to start.
First of all, Syn, the purpose of this was not to debate whether r not FFXIII characters would be allowed. World Destiny already has 3 waiting applicants (including myself), waiting for characters to be accepted, and I know other people want the 13 Canons. That’s not going to stop and do we want to tell people oh sorry you can’t have these canons, period? I know I wouldn’t want that job.

And now I suppose I am going to take your argument by paragraph. (starting at the 4th)
Most of the characters do in fact still have a purpose at the end of 13-2. Why else would there be DLC and rumored 13-3?
Lightning: She wants to be with Serah.
Serah: She wants to be with Lightning and Snow an all her friends.
Snow: wants to marry Serah and be a hero.
Hope: Hope wants to see Lightning again mainly.
Noel: wants to be with his Yuel.
Those are all legitimate plots and they give each character a purpose. As for the unlisted ones, the rper could come up with something honestly, it wouldn’t be too hard.

As for the need for “history” in the KH series. Take a look at the release dates for any FF game compared to any KH game. There hasn’t been a Big KH game in quite a while where they could have put in anyone from 13 yet. ( and, as an Aside, you can get Lightning, Serah, Snow, Vanille, Fang and Sazh as Avatars in a KH game on the DS. So square is trying to put them in. ) Also Syn, I’m sorry to tell you, the whole L’cie plot ended in 13. 13-2 is basically what I listed above as character goals. The plot of the whole freaking game is “Find Lightning”.
On you’re hating on L’cie characters and people from Coccoon/Pulse, Just so you know there are 2 accepted, and RPed OCs that are both L’cie, so even if that wasn’t the case that doesn’t matter, we already have allowed to L’cie with a Gran Pulse History. ( Ashtoreth is one of them, look at her profile in my sig)

I explained in my Original post why we should start from the end of 13-2. I’d appreciate if you’d actually take that into consideration. Just because something has not been done dosn’t mean it cannot be done, otherwise things would never change.
As for chronologic-ness.
As people who get to make up how this all works, the Kingdom Hearts timeline doesn’t have to be messed up. If you are so dang worried about the time travel, of it this way.
Worlds can coexist. Something that happens in the 13 world can happen basically at any point in the KH world timeline and still have everything make sense. For all we know, Acedemia 500AF ( the time period of the ending) could be right now in the KH timeline, and because no one has recorded this, or even mentioned it yet, What right is there to say that that is incorrect? KH doesn’t run on AF, so we could literally make those times sync just by saying time flows differently if we needed too.
Maybe Coccoon and pluse are farther away in the universe, so the heartless were only went to it because of the massive amounts of darkness that were suddenly present. The goddess dyeing, and everything basically has gone to hell. There is no way to know for sure, but just erasing most of the plot from existence is not the way to fix it.

[Zephiris]

First of all, thank you so much for helping clarify the FFXIII warg! Doogie was attempting to help in the staff lounge, but he didn't get far.

Note to all: FFXIII canons will be allowed, either way. If the time warg doesn't work out, the Histories will change. Hopefully we can avoid that though, by this explanation, if I'm reading it right.

- It seems the time travel issue is taken care of for us.
- Kuri has gone and nicely assembled FFXIII characters as they will be by the end of XIII-2.

In response to Syn's point - that applies to almost every single canon brought to our universe. They've almost all had a story of their own. We're expanding on it. A person generally doesn't get a character accepted or do well with it in RP if they don't have a new goal and direction for their character.

Your points are confusing me. FFXIII-2 would still make sense in KH, chronologically. It works perfectly to start from the end of 2, as I can see. Most of the issues that the staff brought up (because we didn't know how the series went) are resolved for us.

And by the way, in the case of Rikku, Paine, and Yuna, their original worlds are mentioned. In Ellie and mine's histories. And they aren't contorted at all from their storylines in FFX and FFX-2, have you read them at all? Same deal with Setzer, and other FF characters that have been applied for.

In short, people have the choice to make their characters originate from a Kingdom Hearts world, or from their own, so long as they make it work, and are consistent with other members' histories. I made Setzer work. Tidus didn't work, so he originated from KH. Kuri makes this work. I'm reading over, but cannot find an actual logical flaw in the process, unless the Etro stuff is iffy - I'd love for someone to point out an inconsistency regarding the process, rather than contend the point of merging FFXIII to KH at all.

[Shun]

Now that I'm rereading the idea once again (yesterday and the day before my head was frankly somewhere else, and I was practically an emotional wreck), I can say that I'm starting to accept it and, most importantly, like the outcomes. Kudos to Kuri for taking the time to type out all of these information and clearing up most, if not all of the warg, and kudos to Syn for bringing up valuable points as well.

Like Zepho said before, we as roleplayers are also tasked with giving these canon characters a new "purpose" or goal, which is pretty much easy seeing how many elements KH brings that could be considered "new" for such characters in their perspective.

Also, as it was mentioned above, I find the whole concept of Etro a bit warg. It had been agreed that the only gods that would actually XD be considered gods would be the ones in Olympus, so this opens a new door of discussion, argument and possibilities. I'm sure that tweaking with what Etro REALLY is in our site would pretty much take care of this... but she's canonically dead and will stay that way so it would mainly be me trying to calm down my OCD.

So, in short, I'm about to be ready to shine a green light on this.

[Kuri, Queen of Feels]

Jul 11, 2012 18:25:31 GMT -4 Shun said:

Also, as it was mentioned above, I find the whole concept of Etro a bit warg. It had been agreed that the only gods that would actually XD be considered gods would be the ones in Olympus, so this opens a new door of discussion, argument and possibilities. I'm sure that tweaking with what Etro REALLY is in our site would pretty much take care of this... but she's canonically that and will stay that way so it would mainly be me trying to calm down my OCD.

So, in short, I'm about to be ready to shine a green light on this.

I can explain Etro stuff guys~ I've been reading about Fabula Nova Crystallis Mythology ( cause its actually pretty interesting: finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fabula_Nova_Crystallis:_Final_Fantasy#Mythology )

It seems to me that all the god goddes stuff only pertains to pulse and coccoon. She, as well as the other gods, could just be played off as the gods, or rulers of those worlds if we don't want any others aside from olympus.
Keep in mind though, Etro does die so she wouldn't really pose as an issue, and shes really the only one that intervenes in the games.

[Shun]

Yeah XD I don't know why I typed "that" instead of "dead. Silly Shun.

I suppose she could be some sort of divine entity ruling just over Pulse. I believe we've had several >> original worlds sharing that concept so that shouldn't be a problem.