In a cataclysm known as the Nightfall, the worlds were almost completely destroyed by a harrowing surge of darkness.
In the shadows of the ensuing chaos a new group has taken shape. Led by an Aegyl named Kalos, the 11th Hour touts an esoteric knowledge of how to combat the darkness and restore the worlds. They might be the worlds’ best chance at survival; but nobody really knows enough about them to confirm or deny their claims.
On the brink of collapse, the universe holds its breath in anticipation. Of restoration? Of destruction? It is up to individuals like yourself to decide.
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Post by qwertyuiopaz on Jul 20, 2009 15:41:03 GMT -4
I didn't know where to post this. It didn't seem like it would belong in the common chatter board, because this is more of an announcement. Yet, still, it doesn't seem quite the correct place to put it in, but it's here.
Enough of the drama. I know that some of you would like to be in the staff. Some of you barely try to hide it. Point is, the people in the staff were not chosen due to only activity. Sure, that was one factor, but the larger one was whether we could trust that the person could do their job. "But Kaze!" some of you may say, "You can trust me!" In short, no, we cannot. Some of you have not proven to us that you can always be here when we need you, some of you can't say that you're completely and totally unbiased. That's a topic that has come up in whispers among some of you, but the staff always tries to remain as unbiased as possible. If you think that's untrue then YOU ARE FREE TO PM THEM. Note the phrase "PM". Don't make a thread calling them out on it. I know this thread is kind of hypocritical, but this needed to get out and it could not wait any longer.
Threads like those lead to more drama. Think about this: Say you're a new member, perusing the board to see if there is anything that stands out and makes you want to join it. You see the plot, think it's interesting. You hit the join button, log in for the first time, and- what's this? You click on a thread, and all there is on the whole page is a well of text and drama. You would say to yourself, "Now, this isn't something I would want to get into." Maybe you had made an introductory post in the welcome board. But you would leave.
And don't you even THINK about saying "No, I would stay and help!" because I know that you would not. You don't JOIN board to help out and get them stabilized. Maybe you want to seem like a white knight to these people and say that yes, in fact, you would join for that purpose. It's DIFFERENT when you're already here. The drama has a purpose. You want to help the site. I do, you do, but do potential members? In short, no.
"But Kaze!" you may say to yourself, "The drama needs to be addressed!" No. It does not. Simply PM A STAFF MEMBER YOUR CONCERNS AND ASK THEM POLITELY TO BRING IT UP IN THE STAFF BOARD. Simply posting your ideas and commencing to shoot down every single counter-argument rather than think about it and note the concerns, try to get on their side of the idea and try to see where they're coming from, is completely and totally counter-productive. I've tried to remain cool, level-headed, and calm amidst all of this drama, but I must say. Enough of this drama, for it is the one thing tearing this site apart more than anything else you think you see. Because in that sense, you're wrong.
We need to focus on one point. It doesn't matter what point it is, the only thing that is important is that the point itself matters to the site. The staff has tried to do that. Instead, many kept bringing up other points, which hindered our progress. We're not going to get anywhere trying to get everything done at once. It leads to people split on what to go with. We need one topic, one thing that's wrong we need to focus on, and get that fixed. When that is fixed, then we move on. So please, next time an issue is brought up, rather than bring up ten more, help fix that one. Don't discourage others from bringing up their ideas, tell what you think would work. Add on to another member's ideas. Once the collective opinion of the board has been applied to the problem, we see if it's fixed. Is it? If it isn't, then we fix it again. But we don't move on until it's fixed. And when it is, we bring up the problem that's second in importance, the first being the issue that was just fixed. Then we fix that.
Work as a team whether you like it or not. Don't like another member? Here's some news for you: YOUR DIFFERENCES WITH ANOTHER MEMBER ARE BETTER SOLVED IN PM THAN ON THE BOARD. WE SIMPLY HAVE MORE PRESSING MATTERS TO ATTEND TO RATHER THAN "OH NOES, BULLY!" Some of you may feel like you're being targeted by me. No, you are not. I would love it if everyone on this board stayed active and with us until life ultimately pulls us apart and sets us on our way.
For the sake of the site, stop complaining about every issue. Pick one of importance. Work on that issue, and on that issue ONLY. Flame me to hell and back, I don't care anymore. Take your best shot you keyboard warrior. For the rest of the good people here, think about what I've said.
Following what Kaze has said, I would like to apologize for what I started in Role's thread in the common chatter section. I was way out of place and it wasn't fair to anyone. For that, I am sorry.
Post by winterlovesong on Jul 20, 2009 18:08:02 GMT -4
To sum up Kaze's speech:
There is no "I" in "Team".
"But there is a me!"
NO D<
...okay, really, Kaze, you made a lot of sense. And you totally pinpointed the reason why I don't join a lot of topics talking about site problems, because guess what? Nothing gets solved, it just leads towards more problems because members can't get over themselves enough to let someone else speak. Which was one of your points in this thread.
For the sake of the site, stop complaining about every issue. Pick one of importance. Work on that issue, and on that issue ONLY. Flame me to hell and back, I don't care anymore. Take your best shot you keyboard warrior. For the rest of the good people here, think about what I've said.
...I know I'm gonna get slapped for this, but... I think we, the common members, have tried to speak up about a single issue at a time before. It's just that... nothing happened. People yelled "YOU KNOW WHAT, WE HAVE LIVES TOO!" to us, and ran off. Yes, you have lives. So does everyone else, and we're all finding time for the site. It's just that... I mean, you can only pull the same excuse so many times before people get fed up with it. And then, there's so many issues that have been attempted to be addressed that you're starting to hit the point of critical failure.
I'm not trying to get on your ass about this or anything, but... Well, it's like my artist, the one who was supposed to be doing the art for my characters. At first, you got some great stuff. Then you started to put things off and gave excuse after excuse after excuse. Now it's been half a year, and it should have been done in half a month, tops. There's a limit to people's patience, and the purpose of my thread? When all was said and done, when everyone and their dog brought up an issue and was slapped down, people lost faith in the site and the leaders. SOME of them did a good job, such as Sage, whom I know was trying, but then there's others we've not even heard from for a long time. There comes a point when things just get kind of ridiculous. My hope is that Sephiroth doesn't just take the torch from Bluey, but that they go and actually start addressing a lot of the issues.
They include:
Positions of Power - should go to the most respected and active members Canon Characters - should go to active members well known for their ability to roleplay Common members need to be listened to and respected. Just because they don't have or seek power, does NOT mean that they aren't giving good advice. Often times these lowly members are right, and if you refuse to listen because you have more power than them, the game will only suffer. Excuses are like assholes, everyone has them, but nobody wants to hear about it. Don't make excuses about why you didn't do your job if you didn't do it, just apologize and do it. Most importantly, and something EVERYONE should listen to, not just important people - remember that the other person is only human. They're not perfect. If the person is being a royal pain, enforce the rules/report them. If they're being a little late, feel free to check on them via PM and make sure everything is going okay, sometimes issues do come up that are more important than duties in an RP. And if they're checking up on you, just remember that they're not trying to ride your ass about it, they're just making sure that everything's cool on your end. Just reply honestly how things are going and things will be fine.
These solutions are really simple, the only problem is that people need to actually pay attention to them and use them. To stop thing about I and Me, and thing as We and Team. And yes... this INCLUDES admin and mods.
Post by qwertyuiopaz on Jul 20, 2009 20:29:25 GMT -4
...I know I'm gonna get slapped for this, but... I think we, the common members, have tried to speak up about a single issue at a time before. It's just that... nothing happened. People yelled "YOU KNOW WHAT, WE HAVE LIVES TOO!" to us, and ran off. Yes, you have lives. So does everyone else, and we're all finding time for the site. It's just that... I mean, you can only pull the same excuse so many times before people get fed up with it. And then, there's so many issues that have been attempted to be addressed that you're starting to hit the point of critical failure.
You're missing my point. What I was trying to bring up was the fact that yes, the members were bringing up single issues. But what's happening is that all that comes from these issues are brainstorming sessions and the shooting down of various ideas, and the thread dies before anyone really starts to do anything besides think of a billion different solutions. Pick the best one. Don't say "this, this, and this are all good" because that doesn't help. Give us one. Then we discuss it on the staff board.
Things don't get done instantly. If they could, then it would be great. But things don't work that way. They have to get the input of the staff, and with the many recent changes to our line-up, we're still getting re-stabilized and getting on our tails isn't going to do much.
I've used the "BUT WE HAVE LIVES TOO!" excuse maybe once or twice. I don't see it being thrown around as much anymore. Maybe some of you might, but then again I tend to frequent different boards. The thing is, when we have all of these people, who we've been with for a while, suddenly telling us all of these problems that are in the site... It gets to a point where some of us have stopped finding it fun and enjoyable, the things which originally brought us here. We try to make things as fair as possible, and fair is not quick.
I'm not trying to get on your ass about this or anything, but... Well, it's like my artist, the one who was supposed to be doing the art for my characters. At first, you got some great stuff. Then you started to put things off and gave excuse after excuse after excuse. Now it's been half a year, and it should have been done in half a month, tops. There's a limit to people's patience, and the purpose of my thread? When all was said and done, when everyone and their dog brought up an issue and was slapped down, people lost faith in the site and the leaders. SOME of them did a good job, such as Sage, whom I know was trying, but then there's others we've not even heard from for a long time. There comes a point when things just get kind of ridiculous. My hope is that Sephiroth doesn't just take the torch from Bluey, but that they go and actually start addressing a lot of the issues.
With all of the problems that have been brought up, these things could not have been done in a half a month, tops. Maybe you think otherwise, but this site is not like the sites you've been on. These things were prolonged by, in addition to our "excuses", people ONLY telling us that there's a problem. We get that. This site is flawed in many ways. So... What? Many have just told us that there is a problem, then as I've stated before, many, many ways have been brought up only to be shot down by someone. Then, another idea is brought up. That one is shot down. You have to ask yourself, and I have, "Is there really much wrong?" To be completely and perfectly honest, I think that some problems barely exist, or they are due to an influx of people who don't read the rules and scroll to the bottom of the page, then going on to create overpowered characters, carbon copies of naruto characters or other things like that. Seeing things like that all day is not making the duty of accepting profiles any more "fun".
And the plot? Well, it worked fine until people overanalyzed and then stopped doing things to advance it. This goes for everyone, including myself. The plot is very member-interaction focused. It's almost freeform. We have a general problem, now go out and do whatever, maybe solve it if your character has the guts. But, nobody has had any will to do something against the Org. XIII and the Dark XII until recently. The plot needs members to organize. We don't have a set timeline of when things happen, then once it's all over it's all over. Goodbye. Maybe think of another plot. This plot is open, hell it could go on forever. There are problems in that itself, but those have already been addressed millions of times.
The reason that everyone and their dog brought up an issue was was promptly "slapped down" is because the tone is that of "Get this done soon." WE CAN'T. When we have 20+ people constantly bringing up the flaws of this site and telling us to do our job, IT DOESN'T HELP. By now, the staff knows of the issues of the site by heart. We could recite them, sing them in a choir, copy them down a hundred times to be distributed by a lesser known book company as bootlegged copies of the bible, whatever. Letting us know for a 101st time is doing anything but helping. Making a suggestion from all the members' suggestions DOES help, but we haven't seen that yet. You guys seem to know firsthand, show it. Get all of your ideas together, pick them apart, take the best aspects of them all, combine them into one, and pitch it. We don't need ten thousand C+ suggestions, we need one A+ one.
They include:
Positions of Power - should go to the most respected and active members
They have, so far. The argument could be made that there is a lack of activity, but many of the staff members in are college. That eats up a lot of time, something that they had before when they were admitted to staff. Should they be kicked off because they're in college and have to try harder to fit time in? No. That isn't fair. Perhaps we need more staff, but that's something that isn't as important. Of course, if the general consensus is that it IS the most important, then it will be brought up in the staff board.
Canon Characters - should go to active members well known for their ability to roleplay
I agree with you 100% on that one. If there are some members you had in mind who don't quite meet up to those standards, well, we can't just take the character away. Maybe they got that character because there was little interest in the character at the time. Maybe they don't come up with long posts, but they just get and understand how the character works. Lots of things are taken into consideration.
Common members need to be listened to and respected. Just because they don't have or seek power, does NOT mean that they aren't giving good advice. Often times these lowly members are right, and if you refuse to listen because you have more power than them, the game will only suffer.
We know that. And we do listen. You just don't see it because there are too many problems brought up at once. Imagine you're ten years old. You're looking forward to another day of excitement, when your parents drop a list a page long of various chores you need to do by the end of the day. It feels overwhelming. That's almost exactly what's happening here, except rather than some scolding from a parent, we have a chorus of repetition which makes things less fun. As it is stated in the rules, we don't get paid to do this. We do this because we are some of the most qualified for the job, and we do this because we like the site and want to keep it alive. But once those feelings are gone, what keeps us to do our jobs? Nothing. The staff now has hung in there despite all of this. We'd like a little respect in turn.
Excuses are like assholes, everyone has them, but nobody wants to hear about it. Don't make excuses about why you didn't do your job if you didn't do it, just apologize and do it. Most importantly, and something EVERYONE should listen to, not just important people - remember that the other person is only human. They're not perfect. If the person is being a royal pain, enforce the rules/report them. If they're being a little late, feel free to check on them via PM and make sure everything is going okay, sometimes issues do come up that are more important than duties in an RP. And if they're checking up on you, just remember that they're not trying to ride your ass about it, they're just making sure that everything's cool on your end. Just reply honestly how things are going and things will be fine.
The same thing can be said about the staff. We're human. We cannot fix everything at once, and maybe we can't fix everything period. But we're trying. If you're going to tell us that trying isn't enough, well, there's nothing past that. Doing comes as a result of trying. It's not the next step. And in addition to what Role said, if something happened in an RP that just is not right, then PM a staff member. We will help. It's what we're here for. And if we do help out, even something that seems so little as a "Thanks" helps. It lets us know that we did something good, and that we're appreciated, something that some of us may not be feeling right now.
These solutions are really simple, the only problem is that people need to actually pay attention to them and use them. To stop thing about I and Me, and thing as We and Team. And yes... this INCLUDES admin and mods.
In short, no. They are not. These things are not simple. They take a process and careful integration. I would imagine you remember the shock wave that spread through the site after the proposition to completely change the plot was brought up. Some were for it, the majority was against it. We're rooted in our ways, and when those ways are flawed, then you must change one thing at a time, but we cannot make it so catastrophically large that it would prompt an e-riot.
We get it. You think the solutions to "fix" the site are simple. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but they aren't. If it was a smaller site, then it would be easier, but this is a rather large site. It isn't easy to get 500+ members to instantly change their ways without one or two voicing their opposition to it. We can't tell them "too bad" and pass them by, because that totally undermines the meaning of this whole process we've been going through. I'm sure that's not what you're suggesting.
I'm sorry to sound so blunt, but we find "The Site's opinion" much better than "(Insert member here)'s opinion". Chat with a few members, maybe a few staff members through PMs, MSN, etc. Find solutions that work in every sense of the word, and pitch it to the staff. If we find that it would work, it'll get posted in the staff board, maybe even a poll would be held to find out if the idea would become implemented. Maybe I'm overstepping my boundaries, seeing as I'm only a global mod, but I have had enough of "WE HAVE ISSUES" and we need more "Here's a solution agreed upon by some of the site and the staff, does it work for everyone yes/no?"
And one last thing, Role. You won't get slapped at all. You're just trying to help with the progress of the site, something we need more of. I find your challenge of authority definitely refreshing. If you must, take the reins, and find solutions agreed upon not just by Role, but by many, many members of this site. It may be hard, but thread after thread of the same old "These are our problems" is not going to get us anywhere. The staff isn't magical, we can't and will not get things done in a day. I would love to see the site flourish and everyone get along, but we need cooperation, not nameless finger-pointing and arguments.
EDIT: ...If anyone actually made it through that wall of text, I applaud you and you deserve a medal. ._.
First off, I'd like to claim my medal. Actually, several, with the way this thread has been going. =P
Secondly, on to more serious matters. I largely agree with much that has been said in this thread. Yes, there are some problems with this site, though perhaps not as many as one might think. It is in a state of flux, and has been for a while now. I don't know how much has gone on in the staff forum since I left, but I highly doubt it's been silent. It is a work in progress, and it's a large work, and will therefore take a lot of progress.
As with every change of power, there is some chaos for a period as the new regime gets settled in. This is fully to be expected - Sephiroth, I imagine, is attempting to take survey of what's what with World Destiny; with the amount of organization we have - or rather, the lack thereof - this is no simple task. At the same time, there are many people requesting or in some cases demanding that something be done, and done now.
This does not work, unfortunately. Rome was not built in a day, as it were. The staff is doing the best they can with the resources they have, and I applaud them for their efforts. Keep up the good work, y'all.
One other thing I'd like to mention, in passing. If no one has the will to oppose the Dark XII and Organization XIII, then why shouldn't they just overrun the worlds? I don't feel that the bad guys should be locked in stagnation just because none of the hordes of good aligned OCs (and canon and world characters) on the side will stand against them; it's not as though the good guys just aren't being played - we have a Sora, a Riku, a King Mickey, and the previously mentioned good aligned OCs - but if the little guys aren't standing up to the big bad, then it shouldn't be held against the forces of evil, as it were. Does that make sense?
If addressed one at a time, then yes, things are simple. Don't try to do too much at once, you'll be overwhelmed, trust me, I know from experience in this area. Do one thing at a time, then when you've finished one, MAINTAIN it. Once you've solved all the problems, then all there is left to do is maintain them. So yes, IF you approach this systematically, it's actually really simple. But I will agree with you, there's so many problems right now that if you attack them all at once, you'll be overwhelmed.
Also, keep in mind, that as the Admin and Mods, your say is absolute. They can voice their complaints, sure, but I trust you know what you're doing. They can deal with your decisions. I do not personally like some of the stuff that goes on here, in fact, my dislike for the style of threads y'all use is quite well known. But you know what? I deal with it, and you should expect every other member to either put up or shut up in a similar fashion. YOU HAVE POWER. Make sure you make it known. I'm speaking to you, Kaze, as well as the other people with power, like Sephiroth. Don't be afraid to use your power! Keep in mind...
As the GMs of this game, you are effectively the GODS of this game. Your say is final and absolute. You can listen to advice, sure, but the final say is always yours and yours alone. If someone refuses to listen, you have the power to banish them from existing. You have the power to enforce the rules you set upon the board, so don't be afraid to use them. I understand that it is often beneficial to be a good, kindhearted GM, but even in the Bible, where God was supposed to be a benevolent being, he dished out harsh punishment when it was needed. As such, you, the Gods of this game, must do so as well.
In the end, however, it's going to take a collective effort. Not just the admin, guys, but the rest of us as well, need to all work together to fix this place up. They create and enforce the rules, sure, and they are the ones that have the overall outline of the RP's story, but it's our job to drive that story. Those of us with major characters need to stop just sitting and plotting, you need to go out and act. Look at KH2, it's a great example. The Org. XIII didn't just sit there and do nothing. They were causing chaos amongst all the different worlds. Bad guys, that's what you're supposed to do! Dark XII! You guys are heartless, you act mostly on instinct! You do much less plotting and much more acting, it's just part of your nature! Heroes! DO SOMETHING! ANYTHING! Most of you (not all, though) aren't doing anything! Minor/Original characters, you've got something to do too. You make up the population of the various worlds. Hold events! Twilight Town could have a struggle tournament! The Caribbean could have an obvious event going on... a PIRATE RAID! Traverse Town guys... there's stuff from all sorts of worlds showing up on your doorstep. Surely you can find some kind of issue going on.
The thing is, everyone has a role they must do. We can't just keep having casual threads... there's surely a multitude of things that we can do.
*holds hand out for medal and a cookie because I made it through on a blackberry* lol
I have a suggestion, Kaze, that I think will be very useful to everyone. Since the site is going to be going through some major changes for who knows how long, I would like to suggest that the staff create a small board area specifically for discussing problems members have with the site's system of being run, and also a board where the stafd keeps the members informed on what measures they're taking to fix what problems. I know I, as a member, would appreciate such a place, even if it's just temporary. It would only require an occasional explanatory post by a single staff member to keep the common members informed on what the staff are doing, since we can't see inside the staff board.
I'm not saying make a post every day, though. I'm saying, this would be a place where all the poles for site suggestions would go when the staff made them, where members would respectfully give their grievances and solutions to these problems, and, the most important part(in my opinion), it would let us know what you'rr discussing, and pasonly give us a feel for how quickly things are improving.
That last part, from what I can see, is why people are all bringing up problems to the staff: they don't get the feeling that anything is being accomplished. Creating this board would help alleviate this by keeping the members informed on what is going on behind the scenes. Of course, we can't be informed of everything, but it would be very nice to get a regular but of news on what ygr staff is working on.
I hope this is the kind of thing you're looking for, Kaze, because i,ve tried. Any questions about my idea? Just ask.
Dark XII! You guys are heartless, you act mostly on instinct! You do much less plotting and much more acting, it's just part of your nature!
Ansem, Seeker of Darkness showed great aptitude in leading Maleficent, Riku, among others, right into his hand before even revealing he was still conscious. He carefully planned who he manipulated, which way to manipulate them, then then severed his links when they were unnecessary. Hardly sounds like he wasn't the "thinking" type. Lesser Heartless, very much so, but those in the Dark XII and Organization XIII are much higher-functioning beings than the others of their race.
@rook: He didn't just sit there either. He was involved himself, remember? Sure, he manipulated others, but he was right there with them as he did it. I think that's less planning, and more expert improvisation. Xemnas, on the other hand, felt more at home sending others to do his bidding. He'd plan and plot with them, and then when their plans were made, they'd go out and do their thing.
I must agree with you to a point, though, you are right, the more intelligent heartless do plot, but not to the degree of the nobodies. The heartless are more hands-on and short term, whereas the nobodies think in the more long term. Why were the nobodies not in KH1? Because they were getting their plans together - creating the emblem heartless, slowly letting the key bearer do his thing while the sat there and collected the rewards. When Sora had the instance with the rebellion within the Org. XIII and had to go back into the egg thingy to recover his memories, they had to go out and do things themselves to keep the flow of hearts coming so that their plans would continue.
Basically, as I said, the Org XII are the types to do the plotting and long term strategy. The heartless are more about improvisation and the short term, though some plotting DOES occur.
Post by shinjihirako on Jul 20, 2009 21:45:40 GMT -4
I'll have to agree with Rook on that. All things follow instict if they're not as intelligent as others. Baser heartless are like insects and gorillas, humans follow instict too if they're in danger so the same would go for heartless and nobodies. If they're not in danger though they they follow coherent thought. So don't go and say that the Dark XII should be doing more acting than thinking than the Organization. Am I saying they shouldn't act at all, of course not. We all just need to get the plot moving because it has come down to just character relationships on threads. That's my 2 cents, whether you heed them or not is your choice.
@role, the reason the Nobodies weren't in the first Kingdom Hearts was because the creators of the game hadn't thought of them yet.
Ansem was much more manipulative and planning than Xemnas, IMO. From spearheading Destiny Islands descent into the darkness, to corrupting Riku away from Maleficent, nigh-destroying her not to mention, as well as finding Kingdom Hearts istelf. If you think that had much to do with improv, I'm kinda speechless. Xemnas just hung out in his tower and watched the moon get bigger for most of KH2. Marluxia did the most innovative planning for the Org.XIII, and we see where that got him.
Regardless, don't fool yourself into thinking that the WD Ansem isn't planning something. Any and all threads that the Dark XII are in tie back into my greater scheme, which only two people know about at the moment. I know for a fact Seed as Marluxia also has plans for the Organization. Just because we don't sit around talking about them with everyone or posting the dirty info in a thread for you to peck over doesn't mean we aren't working very hard.
@lyon: True, but they were undeniably reconnected into it in Final Mix.
@rook: Actually, it states in KH2 that the activities of the Organization were not limited to the second game. If you wish, I could go and go find the specific journal entry that references them.
Post by Ellie who has 0% on Jul 20, 2009 22:49:39 GMT -4
O.o ok...Ansem..is known as a high intelligent heartless. If I'm correct, he's been a heartless for approximately 10 years. 10 years of planning, plotting, and experimenting, as a heartless. So please let's not diminish the Dark XII to typical shadow heartless. Really Ansem was able to full Maleficent..as well as...the "heartless" << they aren't dumb. Wolves act on instincts << yet they plan a hunt like neoshadows, who are normally found in numbers like a pack.
On another note: =o I aggree with sum-doody
I would like to suggest that the staff create a small board area specifically for discussing problems members have with the site's system of being run, and also a board where the stafd keeps the members informed on what measures they're taking to fix what problems.
We can start having bullets << of order of fixing stuff for their can be both organization =D and communication yay!