Magic System Proposition

[role]

Well, I was working on a few things, and it came to my attention that we've got no values for reference in terms of spells and their relative power. Area of effect for spells will also be addressed here, as well as grenade-type weapons such as Bomb Fragments and Antarctic Winds.

First off, this post will be in three sections: Spells and their Power/Effects, Types of Areas of Effects, and Grenade-Type Weapons.

---

Spell Power/Effects

In terms of power, a first-level spell is just as powerful as that first rank of the equivalent spell in KH2. However, as no game mechanics guides exist that I know of, we will give this base power a number. Each successive rank in power is twice as powerful as the previous.

,-------------------------.
| Spell Rank | Base Power |
|-------------------------|
| Base Level | 50 . . . . |
| -ra Level .| 100 . . . .|
| -ga Level .| 200 . . . .|
| -ja Level .| 400 . . . .|
`-------------------------'

Each element is equal in base power, but rather it is the area of effect that determines the adjusted level of power, or true power for that spell. Spells with a wider area are weaker than the concentrated versions of those spells. This will be addressed in the area of effect section.

What sets the elements apart from each other is twofold - the first is the obvious, elemental resistances/weaknesses. The other however is the individual elemental effects.

,-------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Element .| Element's Effect . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Fire . . | Small bit of randomization in power. Burns plants. . . |
| Blizzard | May freeze targets. Freezes water. . . . . . . . . . . |
| Thunder .| May stun targets. Can restore power to machines. . . . |
| Water . .| Small knockback effect. Douses flames. . . . . . . . . |
| Wind . . | Very high knockback effect. -50% power. . . . . . . . .|
| Earth . .| Cannot hit airborne targets. +25% power. . . . . . . . |
| Poison . | High chance to poison target. -20% power. . . . . . . .|
| Magnet . | Draws in foes from far away. -50% power . . . . . . . .|
| Time . . | Deals 0 damage. Freezes time for target. . . . . . . . |
| Neutral .| Ignores defense. Cannot be resisted or guarded. . . . .|
| Light . .| +50% power vs Darkness. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
| Darkness | +50% power vs Light. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
`-------------------------------------------------------------------'

As such, we could say that through these effects, the adjusted power values for base elemental spells are:

,---------------------------------------.
| Element .|Base| -ra| -ga| -ja| Notes .|
|---------------------------------------|
| Fire . . | 50 |100 |200 |400 |+/- 10% |
| Blizzard | 50 |100 |200 |400 |--------|
| Thunder .| 50 |100 |200 |400 |--------|
| Water . .| 50 |100 |200 |400 |--------|
| Wind . . | 25 | 50 |100 |200 |--------|
| Earth . .| 63 |125 |250 |500 |--------|
| Poison . | 40 | 80 |160 |320 |--------|
| Magnet . | 25 | 50 |100 |200 |--------|
| Time . . |. 0 |. 0 |. 0 |. 0 |--------|
| Neutral .|Doesn't have stages|********|
| Light . .| 50 |100 |200 |400 |--------|
| Darkness | 50 |100 |200 |400 |--------|
| Light . .| 75 |150 |300 |600 |Vs Dark |
| Darkness | 75 |150 |300 |600 |Vs Light|
`---------------------------------------'

*** There are very few Neutral spells. As of now, the only known ones are Flare, Comet, Meteor, and Scathe, each of which have their own independent power and additional affects.
*****Gravity spells, though they are of their own element, deal damage based off of the target's current HP, and only affects a single target. Gravity deals 1/4 the targets current HP, Gravara deals 1/2 the target's current HP, Gravaga deals 3/4 the target's current HP, and Gravaja deals 7/8 the target's current HP. Enemies CANNOT be defeated with gravity magic - if they have 1 HP left, gravity will always deal 0 damage to them.

---

Area of effect types.


Area of effect has the largest influence on the power of standard spells, that is to say, spells that follow the -ra, -ga, -ja, etc... series of naming. Independent spells, such as Holy, Meteor, Ultima, and Flare, act independently of this, but are bound to similar rules. These will be discussed only after the basics are agreed upon by those in the forum.

Additionally, the area of effect, in conjunction with the level of the spell, also determines to duration of the spell. Most AoE's will have two versions of it - one dealing instant damage, and one dealing damage over a duration. Instant damage is greater in power, but spells with duration can hit multiple times. Depending on how many times they hit, they may deal more overall damage than one powerful hit. Conversely, if they don't hit the enemy much, than the damage is much less.

When a person learns a type of elemental spell, they may learn ONLY ONE area of effect for that element. This choice is PERMANENT, meaning they cannot change it to something else on a whim. Though this restricts some of the roleplay value, it also prevents abuse of the AoE system, if implemented. It also gives a reason for Sora's change in AoE with his spells between KH1 and KH2 - as he'd forgotten all his spells thanks to Castle Oblivion, as he re-learned the spells, he chose a different Area of Effect.


Power modifiers are determined by three factors - Range, Area, and Duration. Spells that are short range are shorter, but those with a wide area are weaker. Those that have a duration rather than being an instant effect are weaker still.


To help explain the AoE system, a grid system is used for the diagrams. Those familiar with Tactical RPGs such as Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea will be familiar with this grid based system. Here's an explanation of what different panels mean:



With this, we'll begin:


,--------------------------.
|AoE shape . . .| Linear . |
|---------------+----------+-------------.
|Instant Effect | Ball Type| +25% power .|
|---------------+----------+-------------|
|Duration Effect| Beam Type| -25% power .|
`----------------------------------------'
Ball Type sends a ball of the element forward until it strikes an enemy. A good example is the KH1 fire spells. The AoE is relatively low, usually striking only one or two targets, but as a result it is stronger than normal.

Beam Type projects a beam of the element from the caster. This beam strikes all targets directly in the path of the spell until it hits an obstacle, such as a wall. The actual width and duration of the beam depends on the level of the spell, with higher level spells having a wider beam and longer duration. The duration is short, though - for a -ja level spell, it is only about 2-3 seconds long. The power of the spells are reduced due to the long range and duration-effect.


,------------------------------.
|AoE shape . . .| Immediate . .|
|---------------+--------------+-------------.
|Instant Effect | Cicle Type . | +00% power .|
|---------------+--------------+-------------|
|Duration Effect| Barrier Type | -75% power .|
`--------------------------------------------'
Circle Type spells strike all foes immediately around the caster, and are often used to by the caster to protect themselves from harm. They only effect very short range targets - those immediately surrounding the caster, but the area is wide enough to be effective. The power of spells are not altered by this AoE. Examples include KH2's Fire Spell, and KH: CoM's Aero Spell.

Barrier Type spells apply a barrier of an element around the caster. This protects the caster by reducing the amount of damage received, while at the same time dealing damage to targets in the immediate vicinity of the caster. The duration of the effect is quite long - even a base level spell can last up to 20-30 seconds. However, the power output of the spells is harshly reduced - they lose 75% of their standard power. Examples include KH1's Aero spell.


,---------------------------.
|AoE shape . . .| Conical . |
|---------------+-----------+-------------.
|Instant Effect | Shot Type | +10% power .|
|---------------+-----------+-------------|
|Duration Effect| Cone Type | -25% power .|
`-----------------------------------------'
Shot type spells send shots of an element in a cone-shaped area. These spells start out with a low area, but the area widens as the spell progresses in distance. They spell WILL, however, dissipate to nothing after a distance. This distance, as well as how wide the spread is, depends on the level of the spell. These spells, do to their shorter range, are slightly stronger in power. Examples include KH1 Blizzard Magic.

Cone Type spells send a cone of swirling elemental energy in front of the caster. This cone of energy extends longer and wider with each progressive spell level. The duration of the spell increases as well, though not by much. A base level spell may have a duration of 4-5 seconds, while a -ja level spell may have a duration of around 8-9 seconds. Spells of this AoE lose a quarter of their effectiveness. Examples include the Aqua Splash Sleight in KH: CoM


,---------------------------.
|AoE shape . . .| Wide . . .|
|---------------+-----------+-------------.
|Instant Effect | Burst Type| -75% power .|
|---------------+-----------+-------------|
|Duration Effect| Field Type| -90% power .|
`-----------------------------------------'
Burst type spells affect a very wide area surrounding the caster. Its range is the same for all spells of this AoE - only the power increases as the spell level increases. Due to the sheer amount of area the spell must affect, however, it loses 75% of its base power.

Field type spells apply an elemental affect to a wide area. Those within the area are affected by this spell (sans the caster). The size of the area is unchanged by the level of the spell, however the duration and power increase. The duration lasts a while - for a base level spell, it lasts around 10-20 seconds. For a -ja level spell, this increases to 35-45 seconds. However, due to the immense area, spells drop significantly in power - they are only 10% as effective.



,---------------------------.
|AoE shape . . .| Target . .|
|---------------+-----------+-------------.
|Instant Effect |Target Type| +00% power .|
|---------------+-----------+-------------|
|Duration Effect|Pillar Type| -90% power .|
`-----------------------------------------'
Target Type spells strike a target that is in range. This is one of the most common types of AoE - The range, area, and damage are all decent. Once the target area/enemy has been selected, that target, as well as the area around the target, are struck by the spell. It IS possible for the target to be out of range, however. Though the range never increases, the Area of Effect increases very slightly as spells increase in level. Examples of this spell include thunder spells from KH, as well as ALL standard spells from the FF Tactics games.

Pillar Type spells erupt from the ground and extend up into the sky, dealing continuous damage to those in the target area. The damage is very low, but it strikes exceedingly fast and has a very decent area. This type of spell is VERY likely to score multiple hits, particularly to those in the center of the area. The rate of damage, area of effect, as well as the duration increase per level (though the increase in area of effect is very minor).



These are just some of the proposed area of effects for spells. If anyone has any they'd like to add, feel free. Also, input is greatly appreciated. This is, after all, only a basis of concept. Most likely, a lot of work will need to be done to get it right, and that requires input from all of you.

---

Grenade type items


Grenade type items are items that when used deal damage to an opponent - usually elemental. Compared to spells, these items are weaker in nature, and are limited to two types of areas of effect, depending on which item is used. The first type affects only the immediate area around the grenade-type item. The second type affects a much wider area. In terms of the grid, this is shown as such:


Type 1


Type 2

Most elements have a grenade type associated with them, with a few exceptions (such as Neutral). There are 4 types of grenades for each of these elements, each more valuable, and thus more expensive, than the last. The first three ranks share a Type 1 area, and are gradually increasing in power. The fourth, and most expensive, has a much wider area (Type 2), and has a power equal to the weakest of the first three. ALL grenades deal instant damage, rather than duration, through an explosion of that element. These do not differentiate friend from foe, and should the user be careless enough with them, can even affect the person whom used the item.

Grenade Name	Element	Power	AoE	Effect	Description
Bomb Fragment	Fire	40	Type 1	+/- 4 Power	A fragment of a bomb held within an enchanted crystal
Bomb Crank	Fire	75	Type 1	+/- 7 Power	A bomb's arm held within an enchanted crystal
Bomb Core	Fire	110	Type 1	+/- 11 Power	The core of a bomb held within an enchanted crystal
Red Fang	Fire	40	Type 2	+/- 4 Power	The fang of a Red Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Antarctic Wind	Ice	40	Type 1	Freezes land-based enemies for a brief time	A chilling wind contained within an enchanted crystal
Arctic Wind	Ice	75	Type 1	Freezes land-based enemies for a short time	A frigid wind contained within an enchanted crystal
Polar Wind	Ice	110	Type 1	Freezes land-based enemies for a moderate length of time	An extremely cold wind contained within an enchanted crystal
White Fang	Ice	40	Type 2	Freezes land-based enemies for a brief time	The fang of a White Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Heavenly Wrath	Thunder	40	Type 1	Stuns airborne enemies for a very brief time	An enchanted crystal containing the shocking wrath of the heavens
Wrath of Gods	Thunder	75	Type 1	Stuns airborne enemies for a brief time	An enchanted crystal containing the shocking wrath of the gods
Zeus’ Wrath	Thunder	110	Type 1	Stuns airborne enemies for a short time	An enchanted crystal containing the shocking wrath of Zeus himself
Blue Fang	Thunder	40	Type 2	Stuns airborne enemies for a very brief time	The fang of a Blue Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Fish Scales	Water	40	Type 1	Very small knockback effect	A variety of fish scales can be seen within this enchanted crystal
Lamia Scales	Water	75	Type 1	Very small knockback effect	A set of lamia scales can be seen within this enchanted crystal
Dragon Scales	Water	110	Type 1	Very small knockback effect	Fine dragon scales can be seen within this enchanted crystal
Purple Fang	Water	40	Type 2	Very small knockback effect	The fang of a Purple Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Gaia Drum	Earth	50	Type 1	Doesn't hit airborne foes	A miniature earthen drum can be seen in this enchanted crystal
Gaia Mallet	Earth	90	Type 1	Doesn't hit airborne foes	A miniature earthen mallet can be seen in this enchanted crystal
Gaia Gong	Earth	130	Type 1	Doesn't hit airborne foes	A miniature earthen gong can be seen in this enchanted crystal
Brown Fang	Earth	50	Type 2	Doesn't hit airborne foes	The fang of a Brown Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Bird Wing	Wind	20	Type 1	Moderate knockback effect	This enchanted crystal contains the feathers of a bird's wing
Falcon Wing	Wind	35	Type 1	High knockback effect	This enchanted crystal contains the feathers of a falcon's wing
Angel Wing	Wind	50	Type 1	Very high knockback effect	This enchanted crystal contains he feathers of an angel's wing
Yellow Fang	Wind	20	Type 2	Moderate knockback effect	The fang of a Yellow Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Dim Matter	Dark	40	Type 1	+20 Power vs Light elemental targets	A strange bit of dim matter clouds this enchanted crystal
Shadow Matter	Dark	75	Type 1	+38 Power vs Light elemental targets	A strange bit of shadowy matter clouds this enchanted crystal
Dark Matter	Dark	110	Type 1	+55 Power vs Light elemental targets	A strange bit of dark matter clouds this enchanted crystal
Black Fang	Dark	40	Type 2	+20 Power vs Light elemental targets	The fang of a Black Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Light Nova	Light	40	Type 1	+20 Power vs Dark elemental targets	A tiny star can be seen within this enchanted crystal
Bright Nova	Light	75	Type 1	+38 Power vs Dark elemental targets	A bright star can be seen within this enchanted crystal
Shining Nova	Light	110	Type 1	+55 Power vs Dark elemental targets	A shining star can be seen within this enchanted crystal
Holy Fang	Light	40	Type 2	+20 Power vs Dark elemental targets	The fang of a Holy Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Grav Bomb	Gravity	N/A	Type 1	Deals damage equal to 1/5 of affected target's current HP	A strange enchanted crystal that seems to make things heavier
Time/Space Bomb	Gravity	N/A	Type 1	Deals damage equal to 2/5 of affected target's current HP	A strange enchanted crystal that seems to distort space and time
Black Hole Bomb	Gravity	N/A	Type 1	Deals damage equal to 3/5 of affected target's current HP	A strange enchanted crystal that seems to suck in the light around it
Silver Fang	Gravity	N/A	Type 2	Deals damage equal to 1/5 of affected target's current HP	The fang of a Silver Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Electromagnet	Magnet	20	Type 1	Draws in foes from a moderate distance	A small magnet is seen within this enchanted crystal
Horseshoe Magnet	Magnet	35	Type 1	Draws in foes from a wide distance	A horseshoe magnet is seen within this enchanted crystal
Super Magnet	Magnet	50	Type 1	Draws in foes from a very wide distance	A very powerful magnet is seen within this enchanted crystal
Gold Fang	Magnet	20	Type 2	Draws in foes from a moderate distance	The fang of a Gold Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Bile	Poison	32	Type 1	Inflicts 'Poison' status for a short amount of time	Gunk and filth fill this enchanted crystal
Deadly Waste	Poison	60	Type 1	Inflicts 'Poison' status for a moderate amount of time	Waste and toxins fill this enchanted crystal
Malboro Tentacles	Poison	88	Type 1	Inflicts 'Poison' status for a long amount of time	The tenticles of a toxic plant fill this enchanted crystal
Green Fang	Poison	32	Type 2	Inflicts 'Poison' status for a short amount of time	The fang of a Green Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Bronze Hourglass	Time	0	Type 1	Inflicts 'Stop' for a brief amount of time	The shape of a bronze hourglass is clearly viewable in this enchanted crystal
Silver Hourglass	Time	0	Type 1	Inflicts 'Stop' for a short amount of time	The shape of a silver hourglass is clearly viewable in this enchanted crystal
Gold Hourglass	Time	0	Type 1	Inflicts 'Stop' for a moderate amount of time	The shape of a gold hourglass is clearly viewable in this enchanted crystal
Bone Fang	Time	0	Type 2	Inflicts 'Stop' for a brief amount of time	The fang of a Bone Dragon held within an enchanted crystal
Grenade	Physical	40	Type 1	---	A small incendiary grenade
Frag Grenade	Physical	75	Type 1	---	A second-generation grenade
Hyper Grenade	Physical	110	Type 1	---	A powerful grenade
Shrapnel Mine	Physical	40	Type 2	---	A grenade with a wide area of effect

---

Phew... That took a while to make!

Okay, so yeah, this is basically the initial idea. It's not workable now, I'll tell you that much, after all this is still a basis of concept. It needs tweaking. I know a spell power of 50 for base spells seems high, but I needed to use a number that was, well, easy to work with. I ask that you give some decent criticism, and DON"T BE AFRAID TO TEAR THIS APART IF YOU HAVE TO. Don't pull your punches, I ask you to be honest and blunt about your opinions, and as descriptive as possible. What's more, this is for WD's system as a reference-guide in the making. In otherwords, it's not here to be something that you must follow strictly, rather it is here to use as a reference for comparison purposes. We need to keep this in mind as we work on it.

[alan8or]

Nnn. I'm wary of this. On the one hand I can tell that a lot of work was put into this - and indeed, it's very extensive, and impressive. However, I'm afraid that it will be taken too seriously if implemented, and restrict role playing options too much. It's akin to one of the problems I have with D&D - everything becomes so bogged down in the rules and minor details that there's not as much room for role play. Yes, I realize that it's highly dependent on the players, the DM, the setting, and any number of other things. However, I just don't see this going over well - I see it confusing newer players and I see the older players just either ignoring it completely or merely finding ways to work around it.

Plus, y'know, the whole area of effects thing, and only being able to choose one? The Org. XIII proves this wrong. Then again, I don't think what they're doing is exactly magic, so that's a gray area anyways.

My two cents.

[role]

Like I said, this is basically a basis of concept. It needs a hell of a lot of work to get it to fit into this game well.

Also, doesn't the Org. 13 use less of the basic spells (Fire, Fira, Firaga, Firaja), but more of the specific spells (Fire Wall, Fire Tooth)? This should only apply to the basic spells. Players are welcome to make more specific spells as well. What's more, it's good to give the basic level values so that people can use them for reference. All you have to do is be clear about it.

Anything else you want to add? Feel free to get more indepth about your opinions and suggestions.

[Ellie who has 0%]

I just don't see the meaning of all of this. Nice work and all O.o it seemed to be time consuming, but I don't see.....how and why o__o would this be use. ie. Why have numerical values of strength for each spell if we don't have HPs to deduct it from? Personally that just seems like more work to do just to rp.

=D It's great if one was to implement that in a video game, but as for rping it's too much.
O-O I can see myself being one of the people ignoring it, because it's too much to deal with.

[locue]

This is a wonderful piece of work, and would work really well if we were playing something like FF Tactics roleplay.

However, we are not.

Now, things like blast radius's could be useful, just as a general "how far can you dodge in the time it takes to explode" way. But that would still require things like mapping out the battle with miniatures.
Also, don't forget that we live in three dimensions. Or that a good RPer can break any system.


In the non-elemental/growth part;
Flare could be called Ultima's first step.
Ultima is non-elemental, like Flare.
And,
You forgot Energy and Pearl.
Energy is a non-elemental projectile spell.
Pearl is a weaker form of Holy.

((Bad pun time. You have been warned.

And, remember, FF7 could have been a lot worse. They could have been fighting Shinraga.))

[kagemaru99]

You have done a great feat, but this is all for nothing.

Numbers have little meaning in this game, as the characters don´t have any atributes on them, this could be really useful if we were using HP/MP maps and all those things, but we are not.

I have no faith this forum will go through a major change to implement those either, and don´t even know if that would be a good idea.

Oh one more thing, remembe that people can make their own spells too, although they are highly liked to be linked to one of those elements.

[role]

*facepalms*

Shall I repeat myself again? I'm well aware that there's no HP system. I'm well aware about these non-elemental spells (in the KH verse, they'd be called "Neutral Element", since physical is an element as well. And since Flare and Ultima ignore defense, they do qualify as Neutral.).

I have specifically said that this is a basis of concept, and that we need to change it so that it could work in this forum. It's specifically meant to be there for REFERENCE to compare spells to each other in power. So rather than people actually reading me say this (TWICE! I SAID IT TWICE ALREADY!), I get a bunch of people saying "lulz, this isn't FFT". Insert facepalm here.

I KNOW this isn't FFT. In fact, I KNOW it won't work in its present state. That's why I specifically asked all of you to help me change it from this into a form that would work well with this board's system.

Oh, and let me repeat myself again, just to make sure: This is here to compare the relative power of spells to each other. That is the purpose of this guide. NOT to determine how much damage someone takes.

[kagemaru99]

Apr 21, 2009 7:24:00 GMT -4 @role said:

*facepalms*

Shall I repeat myself again? I'm well aware that there's no HP system. I'm well aware about these non-elemental spells (in the KH verse, they'd be called "Neutral Element", since physical is an element as well. And since Flare and Ultima ignore defense, they do qualify as Neutral.).

I have specifically said that this is a basis of concept, and that we need to change it so that it could work in this forum. It's specifically meant to be there for REFERENCE to compare spells to each other in power. So rather than people actually reading me say this (TWICE! I SAID IT TWICE ALREADY!), I get a bunch of people saying "lulz, this isn't FFT". Insert facepalm here.

I KNOW this isn't FFT. In fact, I KNOW it won't work in its present state. That's why I specifically asked all of you to help me change it from this into a form that would work well with this board's system.

Oh, and let me repeat myself again, just to make sure: This is here to compare the relative power of spells to each other. That is the purpose of this guide. NOT to determine how much damage someone takes.

There will be spells and items this list doesn´t covers as people will make them up.

I gotta say this...I believe your idea will be just discarded for a couple reasons(its too complicated for this forum being the most important).But good luck.

[role]

*facepalms again*

I KNOW. That's why I came here and asked for y'alls DETAILED opinions, and how you'd make it better. Don't just say it won't work or that you don't like it. Get in-depth! Tell me why! Tear it apart piece by piece if you must! Then suggest ways to simplify/improve it so that it CAN work as a simple reference guide! Just saying you don't like it or that it won't work won't help me at all.

Also, this only applies to the basic spells, the ones with -ra, -ga, etc... at the end of them. I've said that a couple of times, too. It gives people a basis of power to compare spells with - specifically, it should help them better explain how powerful their original spells are in comparison.

[alan8or]

Calm down a tic there, pal. I honestly think that all we really need from this is the following:

Thunder - Zappy spell!
Thundara - Zappier spell!
Thundaga - Zappiest spell!
Thundaja - Fried Heartless anyone?

That might be exaggerating a bit, but I think it gets the point across. This system that you've written up, while admittedly very nice and very detailed, is just more than we actually need. I mean, with the areas of effect, that varies a lot, too. A highly skilled spellcaster, for example, could do strange things with his or her spells. Say, Merlin. Betcha he could make a giant serpent shaped flame, if he wanted.

The converse of that is that is that novices to spell casting might have a hard time controlling those spells at all.

Also, one thing I've never understood about KH's magic system. What if I don't need a firaga spell, just a fire spell, but I already know firaga? I mean, why use a flamethrower when a match will suffice? (Perhaps a bad example because I know a lot of people, myself included, that would use a flamethrower if they could get their hands on one.)

And as for the Org, I don't think they use spells so much as elemental mastery. As in, Axel isn't "lulz firaja plz", rather, "lulz fire is mah bitch plz." Hence why Xiggy and Xaldy are such pains in the ass - they're surrounded by their element. Kinda impossible to separate them from it. See also why Demyx should not be taken to a beach.

Helpful? Y/N?

[rook]

RPG board = Writing, not math and statistics.

My opinion doesn't matter much, I'm not in charge of what would get done with this. It does seem like a highly in-depth system, and the intent to get more "RPG" elements is both appreciated and noted, but we're here to write a story about characters in the world and unfolding events around them, not imitate an entire system of gaming.

Just like the ill-fated conversation on powers/levels/degrees of spells, those things are left to the RPers to shell out themselves as writing devices.

[fearonaris]

Something like this has already been stated in another thread.

"...good writing could easily take care of this..."-code gorilla

Anyway, ^that applies here. Now I'm just making one post in this thread and I'm done, curse me or whatever.

The reason that I can see behind rp'ing is to have fun, and this is just more rules and everything to bog the writers down. There is such a thing as creative freedom. Sure, you can't have order without rules, but that's just to much. I personally zoned out reading the rules for the site! Wall of text syndrome anyone? No newcomer to the site is gonna read all that! It's structured and everything, really detailed and really thought out. But to a newb(me) It's confusing! Tell me, if someone's never played kingdome hearts and/or final fantasy, what are they gonna do? Fine, yeah, they probably won't join, whatever. But come on. Now for your characters this is all well and good, but I personally don't see Fearon using any gernades anytime soon, or Cloud, or really any other character I've met here.

[lexicon]

...There was a similar table on a .Hack RPG I used to roleplay on...Almost exact.



Nice effort, though.

[serif]

[qoute]but I personally don't see Fearon using any gernades anytime soon, or Cloud, or really any other character I've met here. [/qoute]
Laguna does. My Lily would, if she found some.

Anyway, a lot of this is stuff we're already assuming, if no one noticed. Just with more tables and stuff. Way organized.

So, with that said...

[qoute]When a person learns a type of elemental spell, they may learn ONLY ONE area of effect for that element. This choice is PERMANENT, meaning they cannot change it to something else on a whim. [/qoute]

I know I've played Aerith as being able to do both targeted and general versions of the same spell. That could be just an All effect, but it seems like someone who was primarily a spellcaster could learn more than one Area. Sora isn't really a mage, he primarily hits things.

Then, the table doesn't include hardly any of the spells I've got for Aerith - the white magic and status effects. I suppose the power values on the Cure tree would be the same, and then the others would either follow that or be independent?

So then, the thousand dollar question - Is Firaga a different spell from Fire, or is it just the same spell pumped full of mana? This is an important distinction.

[role]

Okay, let's see here... who's being helpful, and who's just not getting the point!

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Code Gorrilla KINDA gets it. But kinda doesn't, too. I understand that it's too much. I'm trying to get help from others to make it more generalized and acceptable for an RP.

As for your 'wanting fire but already have firaga' spell question - That's an easy one. Just have spells stack, not replace each other. However, the more powefull spells should cost more to cast. This is actually something that's bugged me too about KH's magic system. Also, as far as I'm concerned, the other "Non-main" type spells, such as Flamethrower, or Fire Wall, are independent of those spells. The reason I'm trying to get some kind of system is so that people have a much easier time explaining the power of their unique/non-main spells. Take Fleta's Bomb Fragments, for example. They're one of the reasons I wanted to make this, so that it's easier to explain. I can't just say "It's not as strong as a fire spell" and leave it at that. I could, however, say that it's 60-70% as strong as a basic fire spell. But... KH has multiple forms for its spells. So then I had to define areas of effect as well.

Anywho, as for the Organization - EXACTLY. You're spot on there.

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Rook fails to get the point. Besides, you're wrong. An RPG DOES use dice and statistics - the G, which stands for game, is what determines the difference. This is something most people don't realize - The difference between an RP, and an RPG.

An RPG is a Roleplaying Game - and as a game, there's the winning/losing possibility. It is possible to die, if you get unlucky enough to have the stats and dice turn against you. These require a system, and godmoding usually is done through abusing this system.

An RP is a Role Play. Unlike an RPG, it is mostly freeform, however often times there are the occasional guidelines put into play to attempt to stop godmoding. These require good storytelling and a great deal of trust between the players. Godmoding is much more rampant, as even claiming that you hit a person without giving them a chance to post (and as such, 'dodge'), it qualifies as godmoding (in this case, Auto-hitting).

So, though you're using the wrong technical term, what you mean is very correct - this is in fact an RP, and is not restricted by mathematics, dice, or stats. However, in my humble opinion, all RPs should incorporate some degree of guidelines governing power and what not. That way, Player vs Player battles are more of an issue of storytelling, rather than "who has the biggest kill-all nuke".

However, I am well aware that my system will not work in an RP in its present form. That's why I'm asking for y'alls help in altering this so that it can work. In other words, helping me make it more generalized, rather than using specifics.

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Fearon kinda gets it, but kinda doesn't. You're right, it's too complicated. However - how would you edit it to make it more understandable, and less of wall of text? Anywho, all you need is a bit of experience GMing somewhere and you'll soon realize - good storytelling, though desirable, isn't enough, for exactly the reason you stated - Newbies. Though supposedly this site is for Advanced players, way to many newbie players make it in. Some of them are fine, they're actually pretty decent. But most? If you've ever been to the RP section of gaia online, then you should know exactly what they're like.

The thing is, there are two overall rules to RPing:

1 - Be nice and fair
2 - Be descriptive; try to make your posts enjoyable

Yet, sadly, this NEVER happens. Not even in an advanced RP. The best people can do is try to create guidelines for everyone to follow.

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Zexion - Really? Where? Though, given the nature of the .hack games, that kinda makes sense that they'd have guidelines like this.

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Serif GETS IT! YES! Thankyou!

Alright, so then in terms of multiple AoEs, we've already got a case of it actually happening. So, how would we address doing it? I don't exactly think that it'd be a good idea to have ALL AoEs instantly available, because that'd be way too abusable. Now that you mention it, though, Pure Mage types should be able to get multiple AoEs, that makes a lot of sense.

As for Healing magic... That's the thing... Most support spells affect a single target in their basic form, and All Allies in their -ga form (in those, there's only basic and -ga). As for cure, that depends on how this RP handles cure. In the original Final Fantasy games, there were two types - Cure, which only affected a single ally, but was stronger, and Heal, which affected All Allies, but was weaker. Heal also only went up to -ga level, whereas Cure went up to Cureja, which healed 9999 HP. However, this went away with FF2, when people became able to select a single or all enemies with any spell.

As far as Fire vs Firaga, they are different spells. KH, for some reason, went all crazy with its magic system, so when you learned Fira, you no longer knew Fire. They called it "Upgrading". I propose that only Major characters (Sora, Donald, Riku, etc...) are allowed to "upgrade" their spells, making it more powerful with no additional cost. However, all others should be learning new spells instead.

Morrisa, for example, will be learning her -ra level spells after learning Quake, and will keep her old ones. The new ones will be more powerful, but cost proportionately more. Actually, the basis of MP cost I'm going off for Morrisa is taken directly from FInal Fantasy Tactics A2, as she's heavily based off of its Generic Black Mage class.

The thing is... I don't think they've said ANYWHERE in this RP how they go about this kind of thing. I've looked, and found nothing, so I had to wing it when creating my characters. I honestly think it'd help a LOT if I had something to reference.

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Now then, this is for EVERYONE to pay attention to: These are guidelines. They don't have to be followed, or even looked at, but are available for those whom would like to use them. This is what I'm trying to propose. I'm just not satisfied with them in their present form, nor has this been given a thumbs up by an Admin. I eventually hope in getting this workable, but this was NEVER meant to be something that everyone has to follow. This IS an RP, not an RPG, after all.