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Post by cloudstrife on Jul 14, 2008 23:53:22 GMT -4
I have several questions about Birth By Sleep so here we go?
1. Did anyone else notice how Terra's eye color changed in presence of Kingdom Hearts? Does this mean he has a special connection to Kingdom Hearts like Heartless or Nobodies...maybe he is Xemnas? I have a lot of ideas floating around.
2. When the apprentice appeared out of the body of Master Xehanort, is this actually a completely new person, or some sort of machine created by Master Xehanort?
3. Is there any reason why Ven has the apperance of Roxas?
4. This last one isn't much of a question, but an observation. Did anyone else notice in that BBS video that the three knights pick up Sora's, Riku's, and Mickey's keyblade, explaining why he has Star Seeker from Yen Sid at the ending.
Jul 14, 2008 23:53:22 GMT -4
Last Edit: Jul 15, 2008 11:56:37 GMT -4 by cloudstrife
1. Yes, we noticed it. I personally think (Read: theorize) that Terra is he who will one day become Xemnas. Xehanort (not Master) showed up in Radiant Garden almost a decade prior to KH1, with no memory, save the name Xehanort. It's already been said by official sources that he hates Master Xehanort for whatever betrayal the Master pulled on him and his Knights, and it was never said that when they found "Xehanort" that he actually gave his name, only a name. That of the man he hated so much. This would explain the eyes color change, the similar hairstyles between Terra and Ansem the Seeker of Darkness, as well as said Ansem's knowledge of Hearts, Kingdom Hearts, Keyblades, and other such plot devices.
2. That is the "Apprentice", or "Dark Soldier" as he is known in most circles. I don't think the name is official, and no one know yet who he is. It is notable that he is wearing a very similar, if not identical, outfit to Riku when he submitted to the Darkness in KH1.
3. Yes, there is a reason why Ven and Roxas are identical. But no one has let that slip yet, and you'll have to play the game. In the latest trailer, Ven asks Terra to "erase him" after Master Xehanort tells Ven he "seems to be losing it, but hasn't yet lost it permanently" and that "in order to obtain it, give it up" (one would imagine he is refering to a Heart, or a Keyblade, but a specific subject is never mentioned). Thing is, though, is that Ven asks Terra to do this on the Main Island beach of Destiny Islands, shortly after Terra sees two familiar young boys playing with wooden swords on the beach....
4. Those were chosen, I believe, to symbolize the three different realms explored so far in KH: Light, Dawn, and Darkness. There is one more yet to be seen, as officially stated in "Another Report" (symbolized by a setting sun [Dusk], as opposed to the rising sun [Dawn]). I doubt those three Keyblades mean anything specific to the characters to picked them up, as they all have their own unique, and very rowdy, Keyblades.
Mickey, on the other hand, is still an apprentice under the Sorcerer Yen Sid at this time, which would explain why he wields the Star Seeker Keyblade.
Jul 16, 2008 11:01:29 GMT -4
Last Edit: Jul 16, 2008 11:05:02 GMT -4 by cloudstrife
I've been wracking my head on this, trying to unlock the secrets of Birth by Sleep before the game comes out, as any good nerdfan would. Someone brainstorm with me and let's hypothesize!
Idea: Terra bears an uncanny resemblance to Xemnas (and by proxy Ansem, Seeker of Darkness). We know Ansem (really Xehanort) shares the same name as the old bald man from the trailers. Would it be sane to assume that when Master Xehanort says in the trailer "in order to obtain it, give it up" he is talking to Terra, who opens his heart to the old man's darkness and allows him to take him over like Ansem did with Riku? It would explain Terra's eyes changing color and the resemblances.
Bonus: I found this and thought it looked interesting, though entirely fan-made:
The story/ Once, a long time ago, there were four Soldiers who controlled the balance of Light and Darkness. It was a very simple thing: Light and Darkness, the two opposites. Then there aws Nothing and Twilight, constriction and perfection, the "perfect mixes" of Light and Darkness.
Terra was the Light, Xehanort the Darkness, Aqua the Twilight, and Ventus... the Nothing.
In the story, the group had a great fight and split into two, the Darkness and Nothing against the Light and Twilight. At this point, reality began to unbalance. The four weren't meant to pick sides against one another.
Thus Ventus, the Nothing, began to lose his Heart. He had disobeyed the laws and had hurt himself in doing so. Xehanort had tricked him into following the road of Darkness. So Ventus followed the Road to the Dawn and joined his two friends at the Crossroads.
A great battle ensued and the ending is not yet known.
--------
History rolled around to repeat itself... But something was terribly, terribly wrong. Somewhere along the line, things got jumbled up, and the three Keyblade masters of "now" were thrown away from each other.
Riku was meant the Keyblade of Light. He was chosen beforehand, but he never obtained it. And this explains Ventus' connection to Roxas.
Sora was never meant to get the Keyblade of Light. Riku was meantt o take it, as the storyline states, and Sora was supposed to lose his Heart. He was supposed to be Roxas for the entire story. That is why Ventus has the resemblance. Sora was a mistake. But Riku became the Nothing Wielder, switching places with Sora. Kairi never found her ability because she lost her Heart... But she could not be a Heartless because she was Twilight, perfection... A Princess of Heart.
Thus Sora did not become Roxas/Ventus as he should have and Riku followed the Road to the Dawn, giving him the name of the Keyblade in KH2.
((Theory Part getting even more twisted.))
Now, what of the Dark Keyblader? What of King Mickey? He stole the Keyblade. The Dark Keyblade does not truly belong to him. It was meant for another... but who?
Is Mickey "stealing a Keyblade" theory also, or is that said somewhere? Doesn't sound like something the benevolent rodent would do, unless it was highly unintentional a la Bilbo Baggins and the One Ring. Though I doubt they would use BbS as a retelling of a story we've already been told, be it Lord of The Rings, or KH1.
From what I've seen, Terra would be the Riku, and Sora would be Ven, simply because of what we know of the characters thus far, and the similarities in the meanings of their names. I wouldn't quite go with Terra being the "Light" of the story, as (canon or not, this remains to be seen) he is the only one we have seen falling into some sort of darkness.
I stick by my original theory, quoted from above to save you from having to scroll back and forth:
1. Yes, we noticed it. I personally think (Read: theorize) that Terra is he who will one day become Xemnas. Xehanort (not Master) showed up in Radiant Garden almost a decade prior to KH1, with no memory, save the name Xehanort. It's already been said by official sources that he hates Master Xehanort for whatever betrayal the Master pulled on him and his Knights, and it was never said that when they found "Xehanort" that he actually gave his name, only a name. That of the man he hated so much. This would explain the eyes color change, the similar hairstyles between Terra and Ansem the Seeker of Darkness, as well as said Ansem's knowledge of Hearts, Kingdom Hearts, Keyblades, and other such plot devices.
Aqua is a conundrum, since we know least about her If she is somehow connected to Kairi, I theorize it would have something to do with Xion, since Xion is shown with a Keyblade, later giving it to Riku, and Riku would later give a new Keyblade to Kairi herself. True, Keyblades can be passed from one person to the next, circumstance pending, but lets face it, Kairi and Xion are as identical as Kairi and Namine, hair color/style and clothing not withstanding.
I think the Dark Soldier could also very well have a connection to another character we know in the now. There has to be a reason he is helmed, since it's been revealed he does have a face, it's simply not being released to the public yet. Given that his garb is identical to Riku's during his time as Ansem, Seeker of Darkness' vessel, that's only more reason to believe he's someone we may already know.
Also, anyone who thinks Terra and Zack are related in any fashion... I don't even really know how to end that. KH and FF characters live alongside each other in this universe, but they are not one in the same. And I highly doubt Nomura, being the talented writer he is, would simply recolor a character from another game. I highly suspect Terra is Xehanort more than any one else possible, given what we know about both characters.
EDIT: Something I just remembered for discussion. The Chaser Knights, Terra, Ven, and Aqua all have Keyblades, but none of them bear Keychains, while Master Xehanort's does. Why? Discuss.
Jan 14, 2009 1:40:08 GMT -4
Last Edit: Jan 14, 2009 1:42:13 GMT -4 by cloudstrife
Riku was meant the Keyblade of Light. He was chosen beforehand, but he never obtained it. And this explains Ventus' connection to Roxas.
Sora was never meant to get the Keyblade of Light. Riku was meantt o take it, as the storyline states, and Sora was supposed to lose his Heart. He was supposed to be Roxas for the entire story. That is why Ventus has the resemblance. Sora was a mistake. But Riku became the Nothing Wielder, switching places with Sora. Kairi never found her ability because she lost her Heart... But she could not be a Heartless because she was Twilight, perfection... A Princess of Heart.
Thus Sora did not become Roxas/Ventus as he should have and Riku followed the Road to the Dawn, giving him the name of the Keyblade in KH2.
I don't know about everything else (I haven't taken the time to observe and research), however, I like to think that Sora is something else entirely, and simply does not fit into anyone's plans. No matter how many schemes, organizations, traps, elaborate plans, or deceptive webs are formed, they all become unraveled.
The broad feeling I'm starting to see is this straining and pushing for order, a perfect set of puzzle pieces, organization from chaos, a pouring or energies into making everything just so; neat pretty rows of darkness, light, and the gray area in between. However, no matter how many plans are laid down, the pieces just won't line up. Ansem has to learn that painful lesson more than once. We could probably make some interesting connections with that in history regarding religion, war, etc...and you know...generate a real plot for an rp...or something useful like that.
Whatever was "supposed" to happen did not, would not, could not. Sora took up the eldritch key without knowing the rules and sought to do right. If we want to keep up the comparison to LOTR, just look at Frodo. He is not the Lord of the Ring, but he IS the Ring-Bearer. Was he supposed to be? No way! No one could have planned for it, not even the Elves. It was bigger than all of them.
I like to think this is such a case. I'd like to think that the crown motifs are not just for show. I'd like to think that the presence of the Grail Hallows in symbol (The shield, the sword, the wand, and the chalice/Kingdom Hearts) are not just pretty things to look at. While I'm on the subject...EAT IT, ROWLING. You stole from the Arthurian legends and you weren't even clever about it. *coughs* Sorry.
I like to think that this story will stay a grand larger-than-life fairy tale and not become something...eh, un-grand.
Jan 14, 2009 12:31:32 GMT -4
Last Edit: Jan 14, 2009 12:49:23 GMT -4 by Aryn007
I was giving thought to this last night. Suppose that Unbirth theory from the other thread is correct, maybe Terra, Aqua and Ven are all Unbirths of Xehanort, Kairi and Sora, fighting against the regular Unbirths in an attempt to become whole, like the Nobodies of Organization XIII. And Riku? Perhaps his Unbirth is the masked Dark Soldier, who shares the simliar attire as when Riku was slave to the Darkness in KH1. That would explain why Roxas and Ven look alike, why the Dark Soldier and Riku wear the same clothing, and why Terra bares an uncanny resemblance to Xehanort.
We'd kind of be cheering for the bad guys, but that would actually make Master Xehanort a true good guy, who is hunting them because they are what one might label "abominations" or threats. This might even explain why Xehanort has a true Keyblade with a keychain and all, and the Chaser's don't have them on theirs.
Birth by Sleep will help explain Roxas as well. Ven is a major plot and has a reason to look like Roxas. It is speculated that Ven is the unbirth of Sora (Seeing as unbirths can represent any age of the body and have differences such as state of mind and what not.) and when Ven disappeared, he became part of Sora once more. When Roxas was created, Ven's mind probably transferred to Roxas. Which could explain the looks, but he still didn't remember who he was which is the only problem with this theory. When all the other nobodies could remember, Roxas could not?
Given that this is all nothing but theory, every single post of it, it's entirely possible that an Unbirth is created alongside a normal birthing into existence. Ergo, both could be alive and thriving at one single time, if not destined to rejoin that who the Unbirth is made in the likeness of.
Hmmm... let me throw all my theories out there. That way we can build up something with all our theories.
We already know that Terra looks like Xehanort of the near future (Compared to the game's time line.) and perhaps that is because Terra is his Unbirth. Unbirths are like Heartless, born of darkness but not from some one's heart but from some thing else that has been explained yet. Xehanort wants Terra to fight darkness and forget his own darkness to destroy Xehanort's darkness. Perhaps Xehanort was once a good guy? Terra also menctions that Xehanort is looking for the purest heart, which would be Kingdom Hearts... but why? I think the reason he is looking for Kindgom Hearts is not because of evil reasons. All his other sides wanted to use Kingdom Hearts for some reason relating to their own side such as his heartless wanted supreme darkness and his nobody wanted to become whole (at first) and then later wanted to turn everything else into nothingness. So if the original Xehanort was good, perhaps he wanted to use Kingdom Hearts to cleanse himself of his darkness, and his apprentice may actually be his darkness, his heartless. Something involving Kingdom Hearts, at the end of the game will most likely involve the splitting of Xehanort and his apprentice, Terra disappearing (Probably becoming part of Xehanort again, assuming he is his Unbirth.), Ven disappearing (Assuming he is Sora's Unbirth.), but Aqua's fate is still a mystery as she is not claimed to be an Unbirth but her armor is found in Kingdom Hearts 2 FM+.
Replaying through the World That Never Was last night, I also noticed a striking resemblance in Master Xehanort and The Freeshooter Xigbar, the Organization's Number II.
Yellow eyes, pointed ears, similar facial struture...
Perhaps we are still being deverted from the actually truth kind of with the whole Ansem/Xehanort thing. This may be considered: Unbirths can also have Heartless and Nobodies, where as Terra (Xehanort's supposed Unbirth.) had a Heartless and Nobody and they were Xemnas and the Xehanort Heartless. Perhaps nothing has happened to the real Xehanort after all, and it was his other side the whole time. Could it even be possible that the reason why Terra does not appear as Xehanort (Besides the original Unbirth theory.) is that because Terra could actually be the Unbirth of Xehanort's shadow who we could believe to be his apprentice? Could it be the apprentice is Xehanort but like a carnation that he created to house all of his darkness? After all, Xehanort asks Terra to forget his own darkness and destroy Xehanort's.
Yeah! Thats it! I get it now! Not only was Xehanort's apprentice (Who may as well be his carnation.) the holder of his darkness but so was Terra when Terra was created. In the trailers, Maleficent mentions that Terra is searching for the supreme darkness to become more powerful. When Terra disappears, he creates a nobody and heartless, Xehanort and Xemans. Xehanort (The Heartless) appears on Radiant Garden but has no memory just like when Roxas was created (Who may as well be Ven.). Xehanort probably studied the heart to discover the truth (Like Roxas wanting to learn about the keyblade.) and it drove him mad when he found out the truth. He discovered his nobody, Xemnas, who most likely shares the same memories of events as Xehanort because their original creator was an Unbirth. When they both remembered Kingdom Hearts and their ties to darkness, they became the very things the real Xehanort was trying to prevent. It makes logical sense!
But if that is a little confusing... how about: Terra is some how on Radiant Garden and wounds up old looking (Although he really isn't.) and forgets who he is. He studies the heart under his real name Xehanort, because he is Xehanort's Unbirth. He remembers little things one at a time but forgets about Ven and Aqua. He begins to remember Kingdom Hearts and that darkness is (What he believes...) to be ultimate power, because he is an Unbirth, and with fresh memories that is the first thing he would presume. After he disappears, his heartless and nobody are created (Presuming that Unbirths can create them.). Some of you are probably thinking... but wait, didn't he have a keyblade? Why can't he use it instead of using Sora or Roxas in later games? Well, remember the keyblade he used was FAKE as Terra.
These are a whole bunch of theroies and I hope some of you can understand them.
Jan 23, 2009 10:35:59 GMT -4
Last Edit: Jan 23, 2009 10:43:10 GMT -4 by cloudstrife
Ven still seems to be falling in line with the Unbirth theory, and i still can't seem to figure where Aqua, despite being totally badass, fits into all of this. She's sure to play a large part, I just don't see it yet.
*Note: Trailer not entirely "new" per say. just not yet posted here for discussion.
Mar 7, 2009 9:16:24 GMT -4
Last Edit: Mar 7, 2009 9:17:24 GMT -4 by cloudstrife