In a cataclysm known as the Nightfall, the worlds were almost completely destroyed by a harrowing surge of darkness.
In the shadows of the ensuing chaos a new group has taken shape. Led by an Aegyl named Kalos, the 11th Hour touts an esoteric knowledge of how to combat the darkness and restore the worlds. They might be the worlds’ best chance at survival; but nobody really knows enough about them to confirm or deny their claims.
On the brink of collapse, the universe holds its breath in anticipation. Of restoration? Of destruction? It is up to individuals like yourself to decide.
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As to Rook's statement, I can understand the little..conflict, but it seems that the way to juggle it is to practically try to write the Final Fantasy history until it matches with the universe of KH. I think Seph and a few others are working on that.
That is actually where the confusion has set in. Instead of going with the canon that says they came from Radiant Garden originally, the alternate canon provided them coming from their own original worlds, then migrating to Radiant Garden. Which would otherwise be perfectly fine, I'm all for originality. But it's not really fair to say that the history should encompass everyone, when there is no way to get all the new members to re-learn what they already know from the games to be true, and creates a menagerie of new problems with the characters themselves and how they interact.
If we were to take the new canon to be true, Cloud would never have met Aerith. Yet he is still searching diligently for a way to get to her in KH.
Not so. He met her when the worlds collapsed, as stated in Aerith's profile.
There's actually three very good reasons for the deviation, and it is as follows.
1) We already have a deviation from the canon with the Dark XII. Strictly speaking, we cannot continue in complete canon as long as there are still games made. WIth RP, there is going to be a lucid storyline, generally several, and this means that it is created by the players. We still have more games, and therefore have cut off at KH2, not progressing in the KH canon beyond this. This is already a major deviation, which means we will have to deviate further in terms of plot as the site moves on. Kairi and Rook is not canon by a long shot. We're already an alternate timeline/parallel universe.
2) This opens up the FF worlds. We could never have OCs from these worlds such as Caxnon and Grrface (FFVIII) and Synthest, Needler and Kwe'Faln (FFVII) in this case. Yes, the worlds may be gone, or are missing, but it means that canon characters from here are largely playable options.
3) This pertains to characters killed-- first off, there's a specific reason for Vincent, as stated repeatedly. The reasons are already said, and I'll not repeat them here. With Zack, it's to explain the way things are; a bridge between FFVII and KH. It had to be, and not just because it makes sense. It also means that to bring him in after this is stated in our set history means that we'll break the timeline, and paradoxes like this make mass confusion and chaos. It's not because they were popular, or the like; it's partially because it not only works, but it gives IC reasons for various actions.
In other words, as long as there is RP, there will be deviations. This means that you can bring in aspects of other games and make the site that much more interesting and rich.
1. The Dark XII is an entirely plausible happening within the KH universe. It may be a fan-made idea, but it still GOES with the general knowledge of what we have from the game. The Final Fantasy worlds DO NOT go. Yes, there must be deviation from canon, but technically, you aren't deviating. By changing history entirely, you're rewriting. Something entirely different, since we already have a set history from the games. Also, Kairi and Rook was a cbox exclusive, and if there's one thing anyone here already knows, it's that the cbox canon has absolutely no structure, unlike the boards. There is no going against it. There's nothing to really go against.
2. It opens up the worlds but they aren't used? It opens up the character space, but not for characters that have an abundance of rejected profiles? Banning characters from, Naruto, Bleach. THAT makes sense. Openining up Worlds for more characters, but saying people can't roleplay as characters from the Worlds you've opened? That doesn't.
3. Why not state them again? This thread is supposed to be a learning process, and for as long as I've been here, I haven't actually seen any of the ideas that come from these threads leak into reality. As for Zack, he outlived Sephiroth, and given the characterizations in KH, Cloud has his own problems, and Aerith seemed to have gotten over him even if she didn't forget him. So how would it cause any problems with characters, or "canon" when neither of them come into question? If you feel "deviating" from a set canon plot is the best way to go, so be it, it's not like anyone here can stop you and the ranking party. But to blacklist characters for reasons you "won't repeat here" for a non-canon history that you have posted no where on this site for applicants to learn from is shoddy commerce.
4. If you're set on "deviating" from canon, I would much prefer if I didn't get a thread-interrupting post by a Higher-Up telling those in the thread that Radiant Garden doesn't have a sunset because "we never saw it in the game".
I began posting threads like this one in the Staff Board but guess what? I haven't gotten many opinions or suggestions on it. Big surprise, huh? Only about 4 or 5 staff members bothered to say anything so now I'm asking the members to help recreate this site and help solve some of our organizational problems.
You might not hear it, but this whole "alternate timeline" isn't as popular among the members as one might think. Since I've been here, it's come up in topic I don't know how many times, from I don't know how many seperate people, and I know of only once that the person talking about it was favoring it.
I do understand that the KH games don't provide a lot of character background for the characters this whole thing effects. I do understand that in order to get a proper feel for a character, you need to dig into something non-linear to make it more clear. But for as many problems as it solves, it creates just as much hastle for new applicants who now need to relearn what they already know in order to appease those who give them the green light. Having so many contridicting angles over the two canons isn't a simple thing. Why make it more difficult?
if i'm going out of the loop with this then... oh well.
ff character in the kh games are just characters. They are not ment to have their ff backstory in the kh games. Reason as to why Leon is a grown adult while selphie, wakka, and tidus are young teens. Leon won't know Selphie, an selphie won't know Leon. THe creator (from what I remember reading) did not have any intentions of brining the ff characters into the kh universe to bring their stories. Their just there for promoting the game. So who cares who you bring on here or not?
If this site doens't want ff worlds on here, then i say if you decide to accept either Rinoa, Vincent, Seymour, or anyone else from the ff series that their stories must be tide in with the kh universe. i mean the only characters (orginals/ canons) that should be allowed on the site should be either kh based or disney based. ff.... not so much because that wasn't the path the creator of the game wanted to go so why should we?
See, this is why I stayed out of this-- there's no point in arguing over something that's already been decided on. I wanted a good reason for Leon's personality-- it would have been completely different if he' stayed in Garden his whole life-- that scar would not be there, the way he is now wouldn't be rightfully explained, and everything that made the character likable would be gone. and when it comes to wold matters, a lot of research goes into what is decided and stated.
If you don't like it, that's fine. But what's done is done, and this is not only irritating other people, but causing undue agitation. I, for one, have built Leon up rather carefully, as well as Rude.
The best thing about an RP is that you can deviate a little, such as the DARK XII being a deviation. The histories take a lot of care and consideration into angles. Without Leon's being what it was, you wouldn't have characters like Laguna or Kyros or Rinoa running around. Nor would there be room for OCs from said world (like Caxnon, or Synthest). It was designed to open creativity and room and imagination.
Therefore, I'm sticking with what I've done, and I'm sure that the others who've taken canon such as this will too. Otherwise, the characters make little to no sense and all and there is no room for open minded turns in the sense of characters, if not for the timelines, there would be no wide spread choice for the lovers of the side-characters to take one of them (perhaps one such as Biggs or Wedge, or, hey even Jenny from FFVII). The canons aren't the only important ones. Hell, we even have a moomba and a chocobo for crying out loud!
>>; If that's not creative in a pre-set game sense, then I'm not sure what is.
Point is, people who pick up the characters like them for who they were when they played them. Yes, there are differences, but it was be like rewriting someone entirely new, an OC in a canon's body. Hence the time lines in order to bring back what the players love about their characters. I'm not going to argue, I'm not going to spit fire and drag things out that are just plain annoying. But that is my opinion, be that as it may.
EDIT: Also, the fact that altering the timeliness isn't popular... that makes this site unique. Personally, I like that. It allows more freedom of creativity.
ADIT2: Scratch that... Altered Realities had this, as do several... actually, no many other sites. I could offer links if need be.
If that's how it's going to be, that's how it's going to be. Like I said, I understand the intent, it's the fact that it does cause confusion with people trying to grab ahold of the story. If you're going to keep it so certain canon characters are kept in exile, I might suggest posting the backgrounds you've come up with that would explain why, otherwise you'll just end up with a lot more rejected profiles.
There is no arguement here. There is no spitfire or dragging this out. It's a simple debate, one side presenting reason versus the other. I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm simply trying to help, so please don't mistake my intent. That's what this thread was started for.
I understand, and if it were debate, than I'd be pelted with less irritation from others. Regardless, Seph is, in fact, posting such a thing up.
It's just been a lot of work, thanks to RL and such.
Hopefully, that resolves the issue. And yes, I do understand that it would be useful getting it all out sooner. But getting something comprehensive AND in depth, with all the reasonings behind it added, it takes time.
I'm just gonna go ahead and drop my two sense in the bucket, and I know very well this is a hike up a cliff face.
If someone wants to try out for a Final Fantasy character -- ANY Final Fantasy character *cough*Vincent*cough* -- they should be given proper consideration and not just be rejected right out merely because they don't fit into your established canon.
Role playing is supposed to be fun, and telling someone that they can't play a character that technically is allowed because you say they died, well, that's just unfair to new members who come to the site wanting to play that character with all their her, and could quite possibly pull the character off marvelously.
The character died in your canon? Whatever. If the person wants to play the character, work around it. Maybe the rest of the cast thinks the character died, but for all they know, he could have survived and still be breathing elsewhere. The unexpected happens. Hell, you don't even have to RP with the character - let them go about their business, and they will let you go about yours.
There. Said and done. Flame me, hate me, get angry, go right ahead. I'm just tired of seeing potential character's getting rejected. What happened to just having fun?
Post by darkunslint on Dec 30, 2008 13:31:29 GMT -4
I think that for this one i'm going to have to go with ^^^Malakai^^^. Working around the idea that a character died would be a simple solution to this problem. Also as was said, you don't have to roleplay with that character. Just let them go about their own buisness of roleplaying that character. To be honest I really don't have much to say here, i'm merely posting this to show my opinion which is just basically reinforcing Malakai's.
I agree with Lin as well... she's got a lot of good points. So what if the character died in canon? Aerith did, and she's wandering about the Kingdom Hearts world. And what about Tidus? He was merely a 'figment' of Yuna's imagination (yes, that's how I'm going to go about it, don't correct me). Tidus disappeared at the end of FFX and technically never really came back in FFX-2.
Post by darkunslint on Dec 30, 2008 14:54:31 GMT -4
Although I said i doa gree with Malakai's points I have to do this. Tidus did come back in FFX-2. If you complete the game with 100% *cough*me*cough* then you get the hidden cutscene where he comes back. ^^. Sorry but everyone seems to think he never came back, but he did! Also, that "figment" that you talked about wasn't tidus, that was Shu'yin, someone that looked like him but infact was not Tidus.
Maybe, Darkun, but keep in mind that the endings you need to strive to get 100% of everything accomplished are very rarely canon endings in their own games. More like a bonus for all your hard work.
Exactly, alomst every RPG game has multiple after-ending stuff. Just today I was playing Tales of the Abyss, and Holy Sweet Moses there are tons of stuff to do afterwards. Plus, the after stuff doesnt really connect to the actual story line much. Example: Defeating the WEAPONS in FF7. Well...the only one that does connect is Diamond WEAPON.
It's for continuity. For over a year this has been established, by multiple people. In fact, if certain people weren't dead, it would bring in far too many plot holes and destroy a lot of things that had been laid down in consecutive history.
At this point, working around it means either rewriting history, which I'm not willing to do (a year is a little long) or introducing a massive plot hole. I'd have a long, in-depth post here if I had the energy or the brainpower to post it.
In other words, as long as there is RP, there will be deviations. This means that you can bring in aspects of other games and make the site that much more interesting and rich.
So... deviating for you is fine, but deviating for the masses is something that won't even require consideration?
At this point, working around it means either rewriting history, which I'm not willing to do (a year is a little long) or introducing a massive plot hole. I'd have a long, in-depth post here if I had the energy or the brainpower to post it.
Why is it such a problem? You've already rewritten Kingdom Hearts' history once. What happened to "opening things up for a more rich and interesting experience"?